上级分类: Definition of Life社会生物学


If human is part of Living System and is one itself, so what are General Principles to mimic when designing a human world?


A human is part of nature. So, I'm curious what would be a more natural way to design a human world (because it's all made up)?

What general principles could be copied from nature and transformed into philosophies, design frameworks, cooperation mechanisms and so on that would make a human world more inclusive?


Living Systems principles:


Networks that look like Fractals

投票 (可选) (别通知) (可选)


Mindey says that the main patterns are elements and sets.

Mansoor Vakili写作中,我注意到了生命系统的以下行为:-混沌和随机性-自组织-分形(一个模式在一个水平上重复系统并形成一个整体的网络)-网络(较高级别的目标告知较低级别的目标;以及作为智能)-最小的工作量(具有简单方程式的复杂系统)以及以下活动系统模式:-简单性-灵活性-质量-相互依赖“系统思考的是诸如集成,直观,整体,连接性之类的关系;诸如保护,合作,质量,伙伴关系,灵活性,观察性,资产管理之类的价值观;以及诸如观察,积极,宽容,宽容,和平,充满希望和实行无条件的爱。” 〜曼苏尔·瓦基里(Mansoor Vakili)

From Mansoor Vakili writing, I noticed the following behaviours of Living Systems:

  • Chaos and Randomness

  • Self-Organisation

  • Fractals (a pattern repeats on all levels of a system and forms a network, as a whole)

  • Networks (higher level goals inform lower level goals; and as intelligence)

  • Minimum effort (complex systems with simple equations)

And the following Patterns of Living Systems:

  • Simplicity

  • Flexibility

  • Quality

  • Interdependency

"Systems thinking is about relationships such as integrative, intuitive, holistic, connectedness; values such as conservation, cooperation, quality, partnership, flexibility, observant, asset management; and state of mind such as being observant, positive, forgiving, tolerant, peaceful, hopefulness and practicing unconditional love." ~ Mansoor Vakili

[鲁塔],好吧,我不确定有没有一个确切的配方。正如斯蒂芬·沃尔夫拉姆(Stephen Wolfram)所说,有些事情只需要经过整个计算(即思维过程的整个演变)就可以得到见解,而没有捷径可走。也就是说,在评论MRSGREN时,我提供了我的想法摘要。我相信您可以做类似的事情。

[Ruta], well, I'm not sure there's a recipe how exactly. As Stephen Wolfram says, some things just need to go through entire computation (i.e., or entire evolution of thought process) to arrive at insights, and there are no shortcuts. That said, I've provided a rundown of how I thought, when commenting on MRSGREN. I'm sure you can do something similar.


[Mindey], how could I discover and organise Living Systems principles into a list of four as you did for MRSGREN idea?


From "Symbiotic Earth" movie, I noticed the following:

  • Interdependence

  • Wholeness

  • Feedback Loops

  • Leaps

  • Recycling (everything is reused)

Lynn Twist激发了我思考大量思考的能力:每个人都有足够的力量,有些人会被抛在后面。

Lynn Twist inspires me to think about Plenty-Thinking: there's enough for everyone vs some people will be left behind..

好吧,通过盲目复制丛林世界,我们将获得丛林。盲目地模仿自然,我们就不会真正地进行创新,因此,从生物仿生学的角度来看,我认为将自然的例子作为类推和启发法的启发,而不是作为最终答案,这是有道理的。如果我们纯粹以生物模仿的方式走下去,我们最终将不得不拥有挥动翅膀的飞机和摇摇欲坠的船。关于“通用原则”-通用性如何?在自然的最深处,存在着物理定律,我们无法逃脱,它们只是给定的存在:它们告诉我们这个世界上有什么可能,而生活和我们都没有借助计算机尝试过所有这些一般法律允许的可能性。 (这是一个很好的问题。)//那么,共生如何发生?据我了解,它是巧合的帮助,发展成互惠互利的关系,自然而然地发生在需求和能力的概率分布相匹配时,就像在贸易关系中一样:例如,pl鸟清理鳄鱼的牙齿并进食牙齿之间的食物碎片(自然交易!)和某些信任障碍是随着时间的推移有意识或无意识地发展而来的。海豚与人类共生的一个有趣例子:合作捕鱼。因此,共生是一个由多个参与者组成的世界或市场而不是设计决策的现象。从某种意义上说,贸易是一种共生的进化,人类已经使用了这种思想,甚至通过先进的市场订单匹配引擎将其自动化。我们所面临的问题不是“如何共生”,而是“如何最大程度地灵活和公平地进行贸易”,我不知道有什么本质上的例子,唯一的例子可能是作为营养素市场的生物血液。代谢产物,有数万亿个细胞在交换资源,但那里不存在贸易订单,它更像是山谷和河流,具有一些神经激素调节作用。 Corpus callosum可以被认为是左右半球之间的一种神经信号交换,协调左右半球的参与以形成一个单一的思维,有趣的是,东西方在中美之间将供应链脱钩的过程似乎很相似。 (为什么左,右半球需要调解人来做他们的事情?(一个是逻辑的,另一种是艺术的)也许是因为不同的运作方式需要不同的“政治制度”,然后是调解人(一个专门的市场,如体)整合他们的结果我们到底是模仿还是自己发明了这呢(毕竟不是通过仿生方法找到解决方案的方法),而是解决方案的好坏。重新设计世界市场以实现更多的“巧合”,这可能是一个重要的问题。

Well, by blindly copying the world of jungle, we'll get jungle. Blindly copying nature we would not be truly innovating, so, meta-biomimicriously, I'd think it would make sense using nature's examples as inspiration for thinking by analogy and heuristics, not as the final answer. If we'd go purely the bio-mimicry way, we'd end up with airplanes that flap their wings, and ships that wag their tails.

Regarding the "General Principles" -- how general? At the deepest levels of nature, there are the laws of physics, that we can't escape from, they are just there as given: they tell us what's possible in this world, and neither life nor us with our computers had tried out all the possibilities that those general laws permit. (It's a good question.)

// So, how does symbiosis happen?

From what I understand, it happens as coincidental helpfulness that develops into a mutually beneficial relationship, and occurs in nature sporadically as the probability distributions of needs and capabilities match up like in trade relationships: e.g., plover bird cleans alligator teeth, and gets to eat pieces of food between the teeth (a natural trade!), and certain barriers of trust are achieved either consciously or subconsciously evolved over time. A fun example of symbiosis between dolphins and humans: cooperative fishing. So, symbiosis is a phenomenon of a world or market of multiple players rather than a design decision.

In a sense, trade is a kind of evolved symbiosis, and humanity already uses the idea, and even automates it through advanced market order matching engines. We're having a problem not "how to do symbiosis", but "how to make trade maximally flexible and fair", and I know no examples in nature of that except, perhaps the organism blood, that serves as a market of nutrients and metabolites, with trillions of cells exchanging resources, but the trade orders do not exist there, and it's more like valleys and rivers, with some neuro-hormonal regulation. Corpus callosum could be thought of as a kind of neural signals exchange between left and right hemisphere, coordinating the participation of left and right hemisphere to form a single mind, and interestingly, East and West seem go a similar route through China-US decoupling the supply chains. (Why would left and right hemisphere would need a mediator to do their thing? (one being logical, another artistic) Perhaps because different modes of operation requires different "political system," and then a mediator (a specialized market, like corpus callosum) to integrate their results. Did we bio-mimic, or re-invented this ourselves?

After all, it's not how the solution was found (via bio-mimic or not), but how good the solution is. Answering a question of how to redesign world's markets to make more "coincidental mutual helpfulness" happen, may be an important question.

Good category to think and link ideas further :)

    : Mindey
    :  -- 
    :  -- 


我喜欢马古利斯(L. Margulis)所说的共生,指的是将来自不同物种的生物体长期生活在一起。那么,共生如何发生?如何将其应用于人类世界(社会)?帮助如何在社会中传播?我还添加了关于细菌世界的子问题。

I like how L. Margulis talks about symbiosis as living together of organisms from different species for a prolonged period of time.

So, how does symbiosis happen? How can this be applied in a human world (society)?

How could helpfulness spread in society?

I added sub-questions also on the worlds of bacterias.